Interview with 2017 Super GT champion Nick Cassidy

For the first time ever since the beginning of their collaboration, Super GT and DTM raced against each other at the Hockenheim season finale. For this occasion, Lexus, Honda and Nissan each send one of their GT500 cars to Germany. We had the opportunity for a lengthy talk with 2017 Super GT champion and 2018 Super Formula runner-up Nick Cassidy about the first ever joint race, as well as many other topics surrounding the 2019 season in Japan.

As a German website, our articles are usually written in German. However, with the international interest in mind, we decided to publish this interview in English.

Fans of Japanese motorsport don’t need an introduction to Nick Cassidy. The charismatic Toyota works driver from New Zealand won the 2015 Japanese Formula 3 Championship, before debuting a year later in Super GT’s premier GT500 class at the side of veteran Daisuke Ito. A year later he switched to the other side of the TOM’s garage, pairing up with Ryo Hirakawa. It turned out to be a winning combo for Lexus, as the duo would move on to win the GT500 championship with two victories and a total of four podium results in the same year. The same season, Cassidy also debuted in Super Formula. He scored his first career victory at Fuji Speedway a year later, while barely missing out on winning the title in Japan’s top formula series and defending the Super GT crown. As one of Toyota’s flagship drivers, Cassidy once again seems himself in the title picture this season, with the chance of becoming only the fith driver to win both of Japan’s top championships in the same year. Being an avid fan of DTM, the 25-year old Kiwi was looking forward to the first ever joint race between Super GT and the Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters. As previously reported in detail, the weather didn’t play along unfortunately, and turned the weekend into a challenging affair for the Japanese guests. Already faced with the DTM rules and the disadvantage of not having DRS or push-to-pass, Japan’s big three couldn’t make DTM’s Hankook wet tyre work. Despite the struggles, the Hockenheim weekend should’ve provided them with a good base for the Dream Race at Fuji Speedway at the end of November, when a total of 7 DTM cars from Audi and BMW (R-Motorsport Aston Martin decided to not take part) will face off against the 15 GT500 machines in the first ever joint event between the two championships.

At Hockenheim we had the opportunity to talk to Nick Cassidy. On a cold Saturday afternoon, after the first race where his team-mate Ryo Hirakawa was driving, I sat down with him for almost an hour to talk about various things – including some of the more controversial topics this year.

Nick, thank you for taking your time. We saw the first race earlier. What are your thoughts on it and the first ever joint event between DTM and Super GT in general? Your team-mate Ryo Hirakawa said that while he was satisfied with the result, he couldn’t really be happy, because he wanted to race more against the DTM cars.

„I was just a spectator today. So, even the meetings were focusing on Ryo. I tried to leave the day to him and took a step back. Tonight I will find out more information about what they did with the car and things. But anyway, I think it’s a good step to have Super GT and DTM together. They can learn from today’s results, about how to make a collaboration maybe a bit better for the future. But it’s quite clear that the biggest or the hardest point right now is just getting us to understand the tyres.“

If you would compare the DTM Hankook tyre to the Bridgestone one you’re using in Japan, how would you describe the difference? Is the difference just in terms of grip level or also in degradation? The drop seems really fast.

„Yeah, they drop really fast, so the degradation is quite high. As drivers we adapt to a lot of different situations. So, I don’t believe that it’s all you need to get used to driving on less grip or something. I mean, we’ve all driven in the rain, we’ve all driven in many different conditions, we know how to adapt. The key thing is adapting the set-up of the car to the tyres. Basically, you can change the car to give you more grip or less grip, and that affects the performance big time. Usually, when you have more grip, you slide the tyre less, meaning you also have less degradation. So, it’s better in both performance and the race.  I think we just need to work on that for Fuji.“

Hockenheim is unfamiliar territory for most of the Super GT drivers and engineers. You do have some experience, though, after all you raced here in Formula 3 back in 2016 and even scored a podium finish.

„I forgot about that actually. (laughs)“

That was the year when you were racing both in Japan and Europe. That must’ve been quite stressful.

„Yeah, it was stressful, but I love being busy. I love racing, so it was okay. I don’t think the track is too much of an issue, though. Obviously, circuit knowledge helps, but it’s also the fact that this weekend has been changing weather. We didn’t actually have any test sessions to develop the car. Also, once you enter qualifying, the set-up is locked in DTM. You cannot change anything. Even going into the race, you cannot change it. For example, Friday morning it was wet, so the afternoon was a little bit difficult, because we only had 30 minutes plus safety car practice. After this morning you can’t change the set-up, making it very difficult to progress the car.“

I think it’s a good step to have Super GT and DTM together. They can learn from today’s results, about how to make a collaboration maybe a bit better for the future.

After your unlucky accident in the rain on Friday, they had to replace the bonnet of the car. At the press conference you all talked about spare parts perhaps becoming a problem. Was the team able to repair it or are you using the replacement one for the rest of the weekend?

„The replacement one. They just put some stickers on.“

Looks better with the stickers on it. (laughs) Speaking of the car: Obviously, you cannot use the one currently running in the championship. From my understanding, the GT500 machines at Hockenheim this weekend are actually the development vehicles used in pre-season testing.

„Yeah, I think it’s the car TRD (Editor’s note: Toyota Racing Development) used in Sepang for testing. I don’t know about Nissan, but for Honda it’s the same.“

How satisfied are you with your Super GT season so far this year? You’re fighting for the championship for the third year in a row, only tailing 7 points behind Team LeMans ahead of the finale.

„Honestly, I think if we win the race, we can win the championship. As for the season as a whole, I think it’s been pretty good actually. I compare all the different seasons after every race to see what points level we’re at this year in comparison to last year. And actually, before SUGO, we had the most points after six rounds compared to any season in Super GT. So, that meant it was quite a strong year. At SUGO, the rain got a bit heavier and it meant the race didn’t go to plan. But that’s life. It happens. The only races that I think were not ideal were maybe the first two. The first one was half points anyway. It wasn’t really a race, so I can’t really count it. At Fuji we got a flat tyre. Every other race we’ve been top four. So, it’s been quite a strong year.“

You and Ryo Hirakawa are team-mates since 2017 now. Until this year’s Sportsland SUGO round you both did a total of 23 races together, scoring 11 podium positions. Personally, I think you’re one of the strongest duos in GT500, because being so consistent and achieving so many podium positions in this competition is quite tough.

Yeah, honestly, I feel the same. (laughs) It’s tough, because you also got the handicap system that, honestly, is really extreme. Usually, you shouldn’t be scoring more than three or four podiums a year because of it.“

Especially at Autopolis you had a lot of handicap weight and you still managed to have a great result.

„Qualifying was really tough there. Considering we had the level 3 restrictor, that was our strongest performances by far this year, I think. That’s where we took another gear and started to learn some things. It was good.“

The drivers‘ briefing was quite aggressive actually. There were some drivers who told the GTA that their decision made the series look like a joke, which was maybe a little bit extreme.

At the Fuji 500 miles round there was a controversy about the pit stop of the LeMans car when the safety car came out. It looked like it entered the pit lane just barely before it got closed. Many other drivers wondered if that really was the case. The GTA didn’t publish the full race onboard replay of the winning car like they usually do, so perhaps race control made a wrong decision after all?

„Yeah, that’s my only question, because I have the same feeling.“

Did this topic ever get brought up again at the next drivers’ briefing?

„Yeah, at the next round. I think I was the only foreign a driver that stayed quiet. The drivers‘ briefing was quite aggressive actually. There were some drivers who told the GTA that their decision made the series look like a joke, which was maybe a little bit extreme. But I can see their point. Also, the question was raised from a couple of the foreign drivers, why they didn’t publish the onboard. No response was given, though.“

After the race there was another discussion about perhaps implementing a full-course yellow system. However, GTA chairman Masaaki Bandoh said that it’s too expensive if it were only used for Super GT alone.

„What’s your opinion on it?“

Well, I think both solutions are fine. When you introduce full-course yellow or safety car, there will always be someone catching bad luck. For example, when looking at the Formula 1 Russian Grand Prix, it was Ferrari’s race until the virtual safety car came, granting Mercedes pretty much a free pit stop. So, I guess it was a bit similar to the situation of the LeMans car, as they were able to enter the pit lane before it got closed. I do understand why they’re closing the pit lane because of what happened at SUGO a couple of years ago, which was dangerous. However, on the other hand, what happened at Autopolis this year was also dangerous – and that wasn’t under safety car. So, it’s quite difficult to say. I think for full-course yellow could help making such a situation a bit fairer, but I can also understand when they’re saying that it’s too much of a financial burden. They had it at the Suzuka 10 Hours, but that was because the SRO was paying for it.

„I think full-course yellow is okay. But honestly, what I fear is that the races become boring, because they never close up. For example, we have the long race at Fuji. I find that the races at Fuji get boring towards the end, because we are spread out. I don’t know how it feels when watching the race, but sometimes you spend a whole stint around nobody because of the gaps, meaning you’re just racing yourself. Whereas when there’s the safety car, there is so much action again. And if we do virtual safety car, I would miss that. But at the same time, I really don’t like the pit lane being closed. So, I see both arguments.“

I guess you could say it’s a bit like the NASCAR, with the safety car brining everyone together to ensure some tight racing.

„Yeah, even at the Suzuka 10 Hours or Spa 24 Hours they do full-course yellow before bringing out the regular safety car. That’s nice.“

Shifting gears from Super GT to Super Formula. You’re also fighting for the championship there again but unfortunately lost the lead at the penultimate round at Okayama after an incident with Kamui Kobayashi.

„What happened with Kamui was just racing. To be honest, I would do the same again. My right front wheel touched his sideboard. I spun and lost the car. That was just hard racing. But honestly, I was not disappointed about losing the championship lead. I was disappointed about missing the win that weekend. We were so fast. To be honest, I haven’t had that kind of speed all year in Super Formula. We’ve had good strategies. We’ve had good race pace, but we’ve never had good qualifying pace and race pace. And that was the first weekend where that kind of came together. It was the first time in a long time I scored no points, so that was frustrating.“

What makes it so difficult to find qualifying speed, because I think TOM’s has been struggling since two, three years in qualifying now.

„Yeah, I think that’s more the point that it’s not just from this year we’ve started struggling. We’ve needed to fix the base that’s been around for a couple of years. Even in André’s (Editor’s note: Lotterer) final year in 2017, he wasn’t so strong in qualifying as well. The change at TOM’s came when we changed to the Yokohama tyres. At first, I think they didn’t understand them fully. But this year I must say they’re working hard and we’re starting to get on top of it and are getting lot stronger, so that understanding got better.“

How would you describe your Super Formula season so far? As you mentioned, qualifying and race pace are two different pair of shoes, either one or the other. But I think your race pace this year is incredible. For example, you won at Suzuka coming from P12.

„Yeah, the Motegi pace was really good too. Fuji, we were very good on the Sunday from the warm-up, but in the race, I was just saving too much fuel. Honestly, I would sum up the Super Formula year as too many mistakes, and not really on my side. Driving wise I feel like better than ever. But for example, round one we had some issues on the car. Round two I head to the pits behind my team-mate under the safety car. We double stopped and that put me into last. Round four we were saving too much fuel. Round five we had a mechanical mistake on the car between Q1 and Q2. That put me out in Q2. And round six I got caught behind my team-mate in qualifying. So, for me it’s too many mistakes. Operationally we need to be better. But I’ve been happy with my performance except maybe the incident with Kamui. If I need to look at myself, what I can do better, I think maybe manage that situation better with Kamui, but everything else I feel like I’ve done a good job. Actually, I wasn’t even aware that he was on a new soft tyre. So, I thought that if I kept him behind those couple of corners my mediums would come to temperature and I can keep fifth. Nothing against Kamui, though. I think he does a good job.“

KCMG had an interesting strategy. Despite the new pit window rule, they pitted before lap 10 to put on fresh soft tyres before pitting again late in the race.

„Actually, I was on the same strategy as Kamui, but opposite. I planned to stop at lap 8 for another set of soft before switching to the medium for the final two laps of the race. Looking back, it could have worked really well. It would’ve put us in some clean air. You wouldn’t think a two-stop strategy at Okayama would work, but I think we had pretty good speed for it. I wasn’t really expecting Kamui to do the opposite, because of the new pit window regulations. The regulations get written in Japanese and in Super Formula I make my own strategies. I think I found out about the new regulations reading your tweet. Even my team only said that I can’t change the compound until after lap 10. So, I thought: If I box on lap 8, I can only go to soft. Basically: Start soft, pit on lap 8 for another set of soft and then end the race on medium. To be honest, it goes back to operational things again, making it clearer. But at the same time, the lap 7 safety car killed that. So, I switched strategies.“

How tough is it the communication with your engineer? I mean you’re talking in English obviously.

„Yeah, we talk in English. It’s been tough, but it’s getting better. Especially since we’ve been together for three years now. There’s been some mistakes, some of which were really costly like Motegi in Super GT last year. So, it’s those kinds of things. I think at Fuji nobody realized that it will be a timed race. I actually asked this at the start, but we didn’t even know the regulations.“

Oh, whoops. Well, they changed it to a maximum of 90 minutes this year.

„Exactly. The answer to me on the radio was ‚we’re not sure, we don’t think so.‘ And then halfway through the race, towards the end, we got to actually know we are wrong. ‚Sorry, the race is shorter.‘ So yeah, that question was asked when I was in the car. As you saw, as soon as I stopped saving fuel, I went 1.5 seconds faster. So, that was a bit disappointing.“

When you won at Fuji for the first time in Super Formula last year, it wasn’t your first opportunity, but your best one for a victory. Was it more like a relief or were you just happy to finally get that first victory?

„I was just happy. This is the first time that the whole weekend came together for me in Super Formula, more or less. Obviously, my biggest chance was at SUGO in my first year and we blew that pretty badly. But Fuji was my next best chance. That day I was determined not to let anything get in my way. And my biggest fear was the start, because my race pace, even at Kondo Racing, was always really good. So, I knew at Fuji that if I exit the first corner first, it would be easy. But that day, I didn’t expect Ishiura to be so fast in the race. Because in the free practice in the morning, I had quite a good margin. Then my feeling before the race wasn’t quite as good. But I thought: Still no problem. But in the race, he was a lot quicker than I expected. Obviously, us too, we were quicker than the rest. But in the end that race was a lot tougher than I expected.“

You got into Super Formula a year after your Super GT debut. It’s always being said that if you want to be in GT500 or Super Formula, you best have the support by a manufacturer. In the latter you debuted at Kondo Racing. Was this a deal where Toyota wanted you to also be in Super Formula or was it more like Kondo Racing asked them to hire you.

„Actually, it was both. Initially it was Toyota’s push that put me there. But when my Super GT results started going well, Kondo also wanted me. So, I was just lucky to have support from both. Toyota wanted to see me and Kenta (Editor’s note: Yamashita) together again, because of Formula 3, that relationship work quite well. So, they were pushing for us to go there together. And I was lucky that Kondo liked that idea as well.“

I think if it was great seeing you making the step to Super Formula, since I think it really suits your racing style.

„Yeah, I didn’t know that at the time, but it’s turned out to do so.“

I don’t think the economical driving was a bad thing.

You think that the new rule restricting when you’re allowed to change the tyre compound makes the racing more interesting, because you don’t have to do any economical driving anymore when pitting after just the first laps?

„Well, I don’t think the economical driving was a bad thing. I say that because now for example, if there wouldn’t have been a safety car at Okayama, the 13 cars that started on the medium tyre would’ve boxed on lap 10. So, also about the pit lane being dangerous and stuff, if you look at the race like this, after 10 laps, one group will be on soft and the other one will be on medium. And what was going to happen was all these cars were going to come in on lap 10 in the train, and then they’ll go out together in a train and their positions will not change.“

And you will be stuck in traffic.

„Not only that. But because of the time loss for the pit stop and the first 10 laps, they will come out with the cars on soft right behind them. So, then they’ll be a problem with blue flags for Ryo leading the, race because he’ll be behind the last car on medium. He will not be wanting to give away and there’ll be no passing between the two groups until 10 laps to go, when the soft cars pit. I think that’s boring. That’s how I look at it at least. And with the new car it’s harder to follow than we the old car. Within 2.5 and 3 seconds it’s losing performance. The tyres get hotter, too. It’s similar to Formula 1 right now with the tyres, where I’m finding that the temperature goes up very easily when following the cars. So, not only do you lose aero, but you become weaker and weaker through the race the longer you stay behind someone, because your tyres are getting hotter. So, I was quite fearful that Okayama can be a boring and difficult race on that new rule.“

I think I think it got it got quite wild by the end, but I guess that’s just how things turned out after the safety car.

„Yeah, they were lucky with the safety car.“

The same pit window rule will also be applied at the Suzuka finale, but they haven’t decided on the exact pit window yet, as they have to consider the track length and more. (Editor’s Note: They did now. It opens on lap 7 and closes when the leader starts the final lap)

„Yeah, Kamui told them in the drivers’ briefing that they were crazy, that they hadn’t thought about that. He was really mad. They hadn’t even asked the drivers for their opinions. For me, that’s a shame. Because for example at Motegi I stopped at lap 4, which was way before the fuel window. But the race was 52 laps long. That meant I had to go 48 laps on one set of tyres, but I also had to save a lot of fuel. So, of course I’m not going to be as fast in those 52 laps, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I don’t know why the series stopped that.

Because of course, if you stay out, you’re going to go faster. Or if you’re not saving fuel, you’re going to go faster. So, it’s not like that this is the best or fastest strategy, it’s just creating extra excitement for the race. But there are Honda teams and drivers who were complaining, saying our fuel consumption was much better and how they couldn’t do the same. I don’t think they understood how much I was lifting and coasting to be able to make that work. And my pace was really, really good. So, I could do that and still keep a good pace. Of course, if you don’t quite have the pace, you can’t do that because you end up being too slow. Then at Okayama, obviously we had the new rule, but we all started with a full tank. I just cleared Hirakawa. And I had to box at lap 59 or 60. However, Lucas Auer went to lap 64 or 65. Even though I was saving a little bit of fuel behind Hirakawa, the Honda car managed almost four or five laps more than me. So, I don’t believe that it’s a fuel consumption issue. Actually, I think they’re even better on fuel consumption. But they were crying, wanting the regulations to get changed, because they thought their consumption was worse, which I think is not true.“

Looking at 2020: Are you excited for the night race at Sepang?

„It’ll be cool, but I actually haven’t given much thought about it. You caught me off guard there. (laughs) Quite honestly, what I really miss from Super GT and I wish they would do again are two races per weekend like at Motegi in 2016. So, qualifying and race on the same day. It was amazing. Because right now, honestly, the weekends are a bit boring. I really wish I could watch Formula 4, but it’s on so early in the morning before we even arrive to the track. There’s no track activity until after lunch. We do the same drivers‘ introduction every weekend, we sit in the pits etc. I mean, I’m all for fans and pit walks and stuff. I go there and I don’t mind saying ‚Hi‘. It’s cool, but I think to have no track action for six hours is difficult for the families who want to watch cars.“

That’s actually a big discussion among the fans in Germany. They say DTM is lacking a good and timeslot filling supporting program.

„Well, here’s more action than in Japan.“

What I really miss from Super GT and I wish they would do again are two races per weekend like at Motegi in 2016

Okay, one last question and it’s probably a really boring one: What’s your favorite track in Japan? Because when you ask a driver from a non-Japanese series, the answer is probably Suzuka, as this is the go-to track for most international championships. So, I think it’s interesting to hear what a driver who primarily races in Japan thinks.

„That’s a good question. It’s SUGO probably.“

Looks like we’re having the same taste. (laughs)

„It’s a tough one to answer actually, because there’s only like three tracks to choose from. SUGO, Autopolis or Suzuka. I like the high-speed stuff. I like the flow. I would say Suzuka is too common now, in terms of we drive there a lot. I like the places where we don’t get to go to so much, because it feels more raw. Autopolis is a good track, but the grip level is quite low and thus the G is not as high and you feel like you’re always limited with something, whereas the limiting factor at SUGO is sometimes yourself. I really like that feeling.“

Personally, I really love SUGO too, not just because most races there are more on the wild side. I just love the flow of it. It’s very old-school.

„I used to play SUGO on rFactor in like 2007 or 2008. I didn’t even know the name, but I I remember playing with my friends online, thinking that it was awesome. When I went to SUGO for the first time in Formula 3, while driving I remembered that I’ve actually done this before. Like eight years later I’m driving on it in real life and I didn’t know that I’ve done it on a sim before. (laughs)“

Is sim racing something you still do in your free time?

„I used to when I was younger, especially when I was in New Zealand. After school we were playing a lot. These days not so much anymore, though.“

We once again want to thank Nick Cassidy for taking time out of his busy schedule to do this interview.

Copyright Photos: Own Archive, GTA, JRP, Toyota